I posited a 100K novel as my comp, then asked ChatGPT to convert your 'climax', turning points, OMG's, (whatever term that works!) at appropriate word counts.
A 'desire line' is new to me. I've read/bought both your writing books and work with a four act structure. Considering 100K vs the average script, do you think your sequence climaxes are enough?
Yeah, I'm thinking ChatGPT doesn't quite get it. Yet.
100K is a long book, and for sure you would be talking about at least 10 sequences in a 100K book, rather than 8 sequences. Every 50 pages there should be at least one Setpiece, Twist, some MAJOR turning point, that's genre-specific. As authors we have a lot of leeway for more sequences, and sequence of different lengths. But if something major isn't happening at least every 50 pages, you are going to lose readers.
But remember, this sequence structure is a guideline, that's all! It's meant to help you write better and faster, and rewrite more effectively - not twist your brain in pretzels!
The desire line is simply: What does your character WANT? And what is their PLAN to get it?
Awesome-sauce! With you at the helm, trust had me going how the H***s do I fit all this into eight sequeces? And setpieces, every fifty pages is gold.
"The desire line is simply: What does your character WANT? And what is their PLAN to get it?" Thank you for the clarification. I'm hip deep in revision. Each chapter gets at least a page of handwritten "moddling notes" based on at least ten questions, foremost of which is: What does the reader hope or fear to see next? I'm just starting this pass, and will seek those twists, tuning points as I go.
This is the third book in a series and I began with a kick in the rump. Funny thing. On page fifty-five, the kick goes deadly. Wahhooo!
I LOVE that you're doing this revision pass with 10 questions, and doing it from the reader's POV! You've totally got this.
As for "the kick goes deadly" at 55 - YES. That's exactly why I keep saying that we all know this structure deep down. Every single writer I've ever taught realizes at some point that they've been doing most of this stuff all along. But doing it consciously is a whole other level.
Admission: I asked AI for a novel comp. Here's what it said: Therefore, while a movie might focus on a single, major climax, a novel's structure often involves a series of rising points of tension and smaller climaxes that contribute to the overall pacing and keep the reader hooked on the journey towards the main climax. The earlier calculation of 26-27 "climaxes" is a theoretical exercise based on a very strict interpretation of the "every 15 minutes" rule. In reality, a novel would likely have a more varied pacing with a handful of significant turning points and a gradual increase in tension towards the main climax near the end.
As a fiction writing, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Hi Cordia! Well, that response is hard to evaluate out of context (what was your prompt exactly?) But my first thought is that 26-27 climaxes would be about the number of chapters in a lot of books (particularly romance and cozies - often shorter, and non-genre fiction, which is often slower paced. So yeah, you do want to have something climactic at the end of each chapter to create page turners, but that can be as simple as an intriguing question that will keep your reader turning the page. You'd wear your reader out with 26 climaxes of the intensity that we talk about here (the sequence and Act Climaxes)!
And you usually don't want to exhaust your reader.
But having each chapter focus on a desire line, a character's action to get that desire, and some kind of resolution that takes you to the next chapter will naturally create some kind of climax per chapter.
I disagree with "a movie might focus on a single, major climax." - that's not true at all, and discounts the importance of Act climaxes
Also that AI answer doesn't seem to have any awareness of WHAT happens at each sequence and Act Climax, which is astonishing similar across all genres - see this post!
That is really, really useful to know, whether you're writing a script or a book. But as always, when I write about story structure like this, I am NOT saying that anyone HAS to write this way! It’s just tools that can be really useful to help get a book or movie written.
Was setting up my sequences, (already built on Google Docs for the first two books) and went, err. The eight fits great into the four act structure I use. I tend to write long first acts, equal second and third, then short drives to the finish for the fourth. With that in mind, am thinking adding one of the additional to the first, and another to the fourth for greatest impact. Should be interesting!
I posited a 100K novel as my comp, then asked ChatGPT to convert your 'climax', turning points, OMG's, (whatever term that works!) at appropriate word counts.
A 'desire line' is new to me. I've read/bought both your writing books and work with a four act structure. Considering 100K vs the average script, do you think your sequence climaxes are enough?
Yeah, I'm thinking ChatGPT doesn't quite get it. Yet.
100K is a long book, and for sure you would be talking about at least 10 sequences in a 100K book, rather than 8 sequences. Every 50 pages there should be at least one Setpiece, Twist, some MAJOR turning point, that's genre-specific. As authors we have a lot of leeway for more sequences, and sequence of different lengths. But if something major isn't happening at least every 50 pages, you are going to lose readers.
But remember, this sequence structure is a guideline, that's all! It's meant to help you write better and faster, and rewrite more effectively - not twist your brain in pretzels!
The desire line is simply: What does your character WANT? And what is their PLAN to get it?
Awesome-sauce! With you at the helm, trust had me going how the H***s do I fit all this into eight sequeces? And setpieces, every fifty pages is gold.
"The desire line is simply: What does your character WANT? And what is their PLAN to get it?" Thank you for the clarification. I'm hip deep in revision. Each chapter gets at least a page of handwritten "moddling notes" based on at least ten questions, foremost of which is: What does the reader hope or fear to see next? I'm just starting this pass, and will seek those twists, tuning points as I go.
This is the third book in a series and I began with a kick in the rump. Funny thing. On page fifty-five, the kick goes deadly. Wahhooo!
I LOVE that you're doing this revision pass with 10 questions, and doing it from the reader's POV! You've totally got this.
As for "the kick goes deadly" at 55 - YES. That's exactly why I keep saying that we all know this structure deep down. Every single writer I've ever taught realizes at some point that they've been doing most of this stuff all along. But doing it consciously is a whole other level.
Structure, damn, that's my jam, my super power. Would be lost without it!
Admission: I asked AI for a novel comp. Here's what it said: Therefore, while a movie might focus on a single, major climax, a novel's structure often involves a series of rising points of tension and smaller climaxes that contribute to the overall pacing and keep the reader hooked on the journey towards the main climax. The earlier calculation of 26-27 "climaxes" is a theoretical exercise based on a very strict interpretation of the "every 15 minutes" rule. In reality, a novel would likely have a more varied pacing with a handful of significant turning points and a gradual increase in tension towards the main climax near the end.
As a fiction writing, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Hi Cordia! Well, that response is hard to evaluate out of context (what was your prompt exactly?) But my first thought is that 26-27 climaxes would be about the number of chapters in a lot of books (particularly romance and cozies - often shorter, and non-genre fiction, which is often slower paced. So yeah, you do want to have something climactic at the end of each chapter to create page turners, but that can be as simple as an intriguing question that will keep your reader turning the page. You'd wear your reader out with 26 climaxes of the intensity that we talk about here (the sequence and Act Climaxes)!
And you usually don't want to exhaust your reader.
But having each chapter focus on a desire line, a character's action to get that desire, and some kind of resolution that takes you to the next chapter will naturally create some kind of climax per chapter.
I disagree with "a movie might focus on a single, major climax." - that's not true at all, and discounts the importance of Act climaxes
Also that AI answer doesn't seem to have any awareness of WHAT happens at each sequence and Act Climax, which is astonishing similar across all genres - see this post!
https://alexandrasokoloff.substack.com/p/act-and-sequence-climaxes-breakdown?utm_source=publication-search
That is really, really useful to know, whether you're writing a script or a book. But as always, when I write about story structure like this, I am NOT saying that anyone HAS to write this way! It’s just tools that can be really useful to help get a book or movie written.
Was setting up my sequences, (already built on Google Docs for the first two books) and went, err. The eight fits great into the four act structure I use. I tend to write long first acts, equal second and third, then short drives to the finish for the fourth. With that in mind, am thinking adding one of the additional to the first, and another to the fourth for greatest impact. Should be interesting!